cosmicyoruba:

nok-ind:

cosmicyoruba:

guerrillamamamedicine:

cosmicyoruba:

guerrillamamamedicine:

honestly, being an black us girl who lives in africa, i have lots of thought on the connections, appropriations, etc between black africans and black americans. 

even more so because i live in a world where

1. most ppl assume im black african

2. most ppl here look down on black africans

3. im actually from the states, like slave descendent black

4. most black africans here insist that i am african, and seem to get slightly offended if i say im not. 

5. most egyptians dont seem to see themselves as african

but i dont really understand the antagonism that is happening in the conversation.  black africans seem to be able to have more economic and academic success than black americans in the states (am i wrong about this?).  and i am under the impression that black africans, in general, are seen, in white society, as ‘better’ than black americans. 

also who gets to decide who is ‘african’.  like i dont call myself ‘african’ because to me in my current context it implies an experience i havent really had.  plus, i stay reppin black culture and black cool.  but considering i havent lived in the states for the past few years, everyone around me, in cairo and berlin, assumed i was african, when they saw me. 

so who gets to decide who is african?

why doesnt this conversation make sense to me? 

i guess what i am wondering is, it cultural appropriation if a girl from niger wears adinkra jewelry, or is it only cultural appropriation if a girl from the states does?  feel me?  are we talking about ‘africa’ or are we talking about ‘ghana’…? 

who gets to decide who is and who is not from here?  and why? 

What I’ve learned from the discussion is this, i) people in the African Diaspora are African descended, ii) should Blacks in the Diaspora want to claim an African culture (note: not a general African identity) they need to either have some knowledge of their ancestry or have been accepted/welcomed by the people of that specific culture, iii) it is necessary to listen to the people whose culture you claim to respect, mixing and matching from several cultures is wrong because Africa is not a monolith and iv) respect, respect, respect.

From my view, the discussion was less about “Africa” and more about specific cultures and countries. I don’t think anyone was trying to decide that Blacks in the Diaspora were could not identify as African, the issue was more with choosing to identify with or “claiming” certain cultures. Because Africans largely identify by ethnic group, and in most cases it is unthinkable for someone from one ethnic group to go to another and “claim” it. I’m not saying this does not happen, but usually before you “claim” another ethnic group you need to have lived within that community for a long time and speak their language and it is usually someone from that group that would claim you not the other way round. And they can do this because it is their culture.

I’m not sure about a girl from Niger wearing adinkra symbols but I know that in Nigeria for example people wear fabrics from all across West Africa and these fabrics are even referred to by countries names, so there is Guinea, there is Ghana wax etc. I asked earlier if this counted as appropriation as well. I personally believe appropriation is the wrong term to describe this because power and the power to change how symbols are interpreted. Perhaps the difference is that when a Yoruba person wears Ghana wax, they do not think to know anything special about Ghana and because they are grounded in their own culture don’t feel the need to “claim”.

I understand that this issue can be confusing.

was there someone who was claiming a specific african ethnicity?  because i missed that post. 

and i was thinking about fabric as well.  when i have bought fabric, they usually call it out by the color and the country.  i saw the same patterns in burundi and congo, that ive seen in sudanese shops, and in shops in the states. 

yeah, and i think that we are not doing a straight power analysis and that is making the boundaries unclear.  like what do black americans have the power to do with african commodities and cultural symbols? 

because more of what i heard, was that blacks were 1. making claim to being african 2. making claim to get to use certain cultural products even though they dont belong to that ethnicity, per se. 

it’s weird. like, my daughter has spent 3 1/2 of the past 5 years in egypt.  nearly all that she knows is egypt.  if she grew up here, would she be allowed to claim to be african?  even though she definitely wouldnt be egyptian (not having the citizenship), nor would she be able to claim any specific african ethnicity, but could you honestly tell a black girl who grew up in africa, that she can’t at least claim the word, ‘african’?

i dont know.  man, a couple of nights ago, i was at a friends place, and ended up in a conversation where i was explaining how aave is an actual language, akin to creole in rel. to french, that has definite linguistic structures, grammer, vocabulary from west africa.  and then explaining how, hip hop music, how folks will try to imitate what they think of as ‘hip hop’ when in reality they are just butchering aave, because they dont understand the internal structure of the language.

its funny ive spent so many years now having to constantly explain that i am not african.  and being very careful to not co opt the identity, but now i do kind of claim to be african.  or i accept that what i do and how i am seen is seen in some ways as being a reflection of some african identity by others, even if not by myself.  (like how i buy all my clothes in cairo and yet am told by folks who must shop at the same places i do, that my style is so ‘african’, where as their style is ‘arab’, and its like, really?)

I personally believe that any African descended person in the Diaspora has the right to claim an African identity. A few other sourceland Africans on tumblr have said the same thing.

The objection arises when they see Diasporic Africans disrespecting their culture or using symbols inappropriately. There seems to be varying definitions for “African”. Sourceland Africans identify based on ethnic group and it is the ethnic group that makes them African but Diasporic Africans often do not have any knowledge of their ethnic group. The sourcelanders are saying that for Diasporic Africans, identifying as African does not mean that you can have access to any and every African culture.

With “making claim to get to use certain cultural products even though they don’t belong to that ethnicity” the main issue seems to be respect. Someone brought up some Diasporic Africans claiming to be Nubian and wearing kente cloth without paying attention to the oppression that the Nubian people face today or realising that you just can’t say you’re part of an ethnic group if the people there haven’t bestowed the honour to you.

I personally believe that your daughter is already African (see my first point). I’m not sure how it works in Egypt but in West Africa, she could end up being part of any ethnic group whose language she spoke. I’ve been told that in the past, ethnic boundaries on the African continent were more fluid, it was possible to be adopted into a community and become part of an ethnic group. Not so much today since “divide and rule” but the vestiges remain. I’ve had one or two friends who I swore were Yoruba because of their names and the way they spoke the language fluently, but they had African American parents.

In Africa if your brown we think of you as being one of us until you talk or act differently when you say your not African I suppose to some extent there is a feeling that by not stating your African your not giving appropriate veneration to your many African Ancestors. Who vastly outnumber (in terms of Generations) the ones who have been away from the continent. (500 years Vs thousands of years)

Being with Arab egyptians & African egyptians in both Cairo and Aswan there is a big difference in ideology. As many of these people have different ethnic origins.  

I agree with Queen Cosmic,

1. Talking from a African spirituality perspective one of the most important things you can do is Acknowledge, respect and pay reverence to your ancestors. Looking at it from this perspective it is of the upmost importance that you know who they were & where they came from (It is possible now to do that thanks to modern technology). Then NO-ONE can say that your not from somewhere & they don’t have the right to if it’s in your blood.
2. Give appropriate respect of peoples culture (language aswell) & it makes sailing smooth.
3. The Diaspora experience is a interesting one. It is not enough to have genetics which is African, your consciousness must be African(Again that means appropriately comprehending the culture). As at times many African cultures are at a completely different polarity to Anglo, greco roman culture. This is going to offend people however this is just my opinion which may not be right ALOT OF AFRICANS DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHO THEY ARE (I say this in regards to many people close to me) Colonial & post colonial mentality is strong. Whether this mentality be European & Arab it has many people believing otherwise. This applies to All Africans. (for more on this listen to speeches by Marcus Garvey & Thomas Sankara)

We see an illusion of the world with our presence missing, we no longer produce things appropriately anymore (However things are changing.) When our physical bodies, blood, land and goods played a integral part.  A good proportion of African Leadership continually lets us down. In Ifa there is a believe that we live on through our descendants given the right conditions. For that belief we do our best to ensure our Children with the best possible future. I can quote many people I know (family) who don’t do this. My own farther is included & has no belief in this.  

Finally many Africans need to start analyzing the cultures we consume media & goods from. See how they treat people of a darker complexion. (Most people on Tumblr do this) Personally with me as I got older and started to educate myself I began to disassociate myself with many Greco Roman ideals I had been indoctrinated with.

If anything the definition African American for now best defines you. Until you find other ways to define yourself. 

Lol @ “Queen Cosmic” (read: I love it!)

Also all of that!